Union of Two Worlds
Man was created spirit in the spiritual world; God’s will and purpose is for mankind to have his life centered in both worlds and become the builders of the Kingdom of God’s Son on the earth. The material earth was brought forth by Christ Jesus and fashioned according to the pattern of His Father’s spiritual Kingdom that was already perfected in the spirit world. However, being a part of the material world made it vulnerable to change and decay.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
We need to look closely on how man was begotten by God. Christ Jesus in the beginning had already bridged the gulf between God and the Man; He now appears as the Lord God. This title unites God with the Man in a single expression as JEHOVAH ELOHIM. God and the Man He created had never been separated from the moment of man’s creation. This is made clear in the opening verses of John’s Gospel when he said, “And the Word was God.” The first statement says, “In the beginning was the Word,” or the LOGOS, which brings together the complete scope of the wisdom, will and purpose concerning all that was in the heart and mind of God, when He said, “Let us make man.”
This is not to suggest that this was the beginning of the existence of God’s Son Christ Jesus, because Christ was in God from eternity past. He is known as the “Ever Living One.” It is so important for us to know that man on the earth today is also connected to that first man Christ Jesus, having been created in Him.
It is so sad that most people today see themselves entering life through their natural birth, having no connection to the eternal Christ in creation. Paul declares in Ephesians 2:10, that: “We were created in Christ Jesus... [but never born].”
Paul also declares that it was our body that was formed in our mother’s womb. Remember that your body is not you, for you are spirit which is invisible. It is so important to understand that there is only one spirit in this universe and that spirit is God.
So the spirit that is Christ Jesus is not another spirit but is the same spirit because spirit is indivisible. The Christ in you is not another Christ but the same Spirit. Paul says in Romans 8:11,
“But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.”
It is the same spirit. Father, help us to grasp this important truth.
Then came the Jews round about Him, and said unto him, “How long do you make us to doubt? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly,?” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you did not believe me, the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me, that I and my Father are one.” (John 10:24)
Jesus identified Himself by the things that He did, for the things that God does cannot be done by anyone other than those who are one with Him. Jesus said,
“My sheep are attuned to hear my voice, and instinctively that is what they do, and so they become a true expression of who I am, expressing my life. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never be subject to death, neither shall anyone be able to change that which I have determined. My Father which possessed them first gave them to me, for they were in Him from the very beginning, and He is greater than all; and no one is able to change His will and purpose for them. Now you should know that “I and my Father are one.” (John 10:27- 30, paraphrased)
The main question to those who claim to be Christians is this: Are you expressing the life of the Christ in your daily walk with God? Remember that His “sheep” all walk in a prescribed manner; they are directed by the voice of the Christ within and do not follow a man. So many read the Bible and make up their own mind concerning the path they will walk.
But this violates the primary directive of the Shepherd who clearly said, “My sheep hear my voice”. He did not say ‘my sheep read the Bible’. The Bible does not show us God’s direction for our lives; His voice does. We need to listen to what the Shepherd is saying; that will confirm our unity and oneness with the Christ. This is so important as our identity links us with the two worlds -spiritual and natural - in which man has the ability to function.
We were in God from eternity past, and we are in Christ from our creation in Genesis 1:26, which makes us a part of that spirit world, for we were created in Christ Jesus in the likeness and the image of God Himself. In Genesis 1:28, that first man Christ Jesus was told to be fruitful and multiply and to fill the earth. He was obedient and did exactly what he was told to do, which was recorded in Genesis 2:7.
He began the process by forming a body from the dust of the earth according to His Father’s design, as the Man was to bridge the gulf between the spiritual world and the material physical world. Then into the nostrils of that man the Lord God breathed the same Breath of Life He had received from the Father. Having a body from the dust of the earth links us to this material world; however, being spirit we are created in Christ Jesus so that we can function in both the spirit world and the physical world. Christ himself was born of a virgin; He took upon himself the same form of a man. Yet, being in the same form that we have, He could heal the sick and raise the dead.
It is this divine ability to function in both worlds that is the defining mark of our true identity. Man in the natural lives his life completely in the material physical world, being subject to the limitations of that world. But it was our Heavenly Father’s intention that we would also function in the spirit realm according to the eternal life that He gave us in creation.
Clearly, we need two different kinds of faculties in order to operate in two worlds:
1) Faculties specifically geared for the physical world and
2) Faculties that distinctly function in the realm of spirit.
The control mechanism that allows us to function in this natural world is the natural or carnal mind, which was used by the serpent to deceive Eve. Eve - the woman - was never created; her body was formed by the Lord God, therefore she was subject to the deception of the serpent. She never had the same relationship with God that Adam had, and so for her to break the love covenant that Adam had with God was not a problem. The serpent knew that Eve could be deceived and would believe the lie that she would not die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
While man is subject to the carnal mind, he would ignore the word of the Father,
“The carnal mind is an enemy of God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can it be.” (Romans 8:7)
Mankind dies in ignorance because the carnal mind is deceived and the loss does not register with us. According to the natural carnal mind, the word death means cessation of life; so death takes over. Eve did not literally die; she died to the intelligence of the spirit mind. Her understanding of herself and her relationship with God were changed - God’s presence was no longer a priority as her life was filled with the consciousness of other things. Adam suffered the same consequence - he hid from God.
In Romans 1:28, the apostle Paul clearly reveals the differences between the mind of the spirit and the carnal mind.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not becoming.
The term “reprobate” speaks of a metal that is not true to type; it looks the same, but has an inferior quality.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward [or inner] man of the spirit. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my [spirit] mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is operating in my members causing me to “miss the mark”. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord who holds the answer. So then with the mind, I serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:22)
This is the duplicity that confronts us all. This dual function denies the reality of our true being and identity.
“But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of desires and cravings. For without the law, sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once while I was conscious of my true identity as Christ, but when the carnal mind took over and sin revived, I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to give me life, I found to be unto death.” (Romans 7:8)
The apostle Paul simplifies the issue: do you see yourself as flesh or do you see your reality as spirit?!! If our identity is in Christ Jesus, then the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has made us free from the law of sin and death. Jesus Christ went to the cross as us to destroy our mortality. He was buried and on the third day He walked out of the tomb as the new creation man. Within Him was all of mankind - forever released from the law of sin and death, which no longer has any true basis to function in us now that we are new creation beings.
The painful truth is that so few of God’s people see themselves in Christ, who is Lord and King ruling and reigning in righteousness over our bodies which are the temple of God. While we know that this is the truth, unless we step into that reality, the demonstration of that truth will be lacking. So let us look further to see if the scriptures provide further help in this matter. It is a huge step to leave behind the sense of our mortality and look beyond our birth into this world, to see our true identity in the spirit world and on the other side of the cross and the Tomb.
JACOB - ISRAEL
The life of Jacob is laid out for us so that we can understand the process of change that we must undergo. Jacob had a twin brother named Esau with whom he had a lifelong conflict that started in the womb of their mother Rebecca. When Rebecca inquired of the Lord about this seeming war in her womb, the Lord gave her a great revelation: “Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.”
God is teaching us a spiritual principle that pertains to life on earth. The first life that develops in us at birth is our natural life. It is only as we become aware of our true origin that we understand we were created spirit in the beginning before our bodies were born. This spiritual truth was established in Adam as the first man of whom Paul declared,
“And so it is written, The first man Adam, [the first born] became a living Soul, but the last Adam [the second born] became a life- giving spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:45)
The same principle applies to Esau and Jacob. It was not the firstborn Esau who would grow to be stronger; rather, it was the second born, Jacob, whose life was linked to God’s plan for the nation of Israel. Rebecca understood this truth. So she waited for God to produce the opportunity when she could implement His divine purposes. One of these purposes was that Jacob must have the birthright which, according to Israel’s natural tradition, was the right of the firstborn son. However, the birthright was a spiritual endowment, and spiritual principles which God governs do not follow the pattern of that which is natural.
One day Esau returned home from hunting; he was very hungry, having caught no prey. Jacob had been cooking bean soup when his brother arrived at the house. Esau was so hungry that he asked for some of the food Jacob was cooking. Jacob saw his opportunity to make a deal with his brother. He said to him, “I will give you all the food you can eat if you will just give me the birthright.” Without hesitation, Esau gave him what he asked for, and in exchange, Jacob gave him food. In this, Esau showed that he placed very little importance on the birthright which cost him nothing. From God’s point of view, this confirmed that he did not deserve the birthright with all its privileges in the family.
In this story is a very real lesson for all of us today, because we were all created in Christ Jesus, “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature (Colossians 1:15).” We are created in His image and likeness, and have the rights of the Firstborn. Chief among our rights is our birthright. Tragically, many of God’s people today do not appreciate the value of the birthright any more than Esau, having sacrificed it for the pleasures of life.
Having obtained the birthright, Jacob waits for the next step: receiving the patriarchal blessing from Isaac. It was the right of the father before he died to bless the firstborn with the blessing of almighty God upon his life, prophesying direction and encouragement to fulfill his place and function in connection with the family. This spiritual principle applies to us today: the blessings of our Heavenly Father would be the greatest blessing we could have over our lives, equipping us for our responsibility towards our own family and universally, towards the whole family of God. This has become a forgotten issue in our lives today because the role of the patriarch in Christian families is so misunderstood. But I believe the principles that God established in Israel has spiritual relevance for us today, not in terms of some law, but as a spiritual responsibility towards our family and the family of God.
Fathers, grandfathers and great-great grandfathers in every family have a real unique responsibility towards the children. You have been granted wisdom by the spirit to help, guide, and encourage them to discover the will and purposes of God. Not to stand over them as a policeman, but to function as a father who understands that he is representing our Heavenly Father. If a man lacks wisdom let him ask and it shall be given to him - from above.
This is serious business. Imagine how many young people’s lives could have been redirected away from drugs, alcohol and crime if fathers had fulfilled their spiritual responsibility towards their children. Our spiritual authority includes the ability to receive from God the ability to prophesy over the children if specific direction is given from the Lord in this regard. Remember, this is not a professional counselor seeking to direct a family, but a father who functions under the wisdom and direction of our Heavenly Father. But you may say, but I do not feel that I have the ability to fulfill this role. Then Father says,
“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” (James 1:5)
Isaac was getting old and realized that his days were numbered; so he called his first born Esau and asked him to prepare his favorite meal of venison before the patriarchal blessing would be pronounced. Isaac was almost blind, so he could not see very much; besides, he had no knowledge of the exchange of the birthright from Esau to Jacob.
When Rebecca heard Isaac’s intent to pronounce the blessings upon Esau, she saw an opportunity to bring the next step to pass, whereby Jacob would receive the father’s blessing instead of Esau. From a human perspective, Rebecca appears to cheat and lie to see the will of God fulfilled. Isaac was blind so he could not see who was receiving the blessing, although it appears that he might have known.
Jacob dressed himself in Esau’s clothes and served his father venison; consequently, Isaac passed on the patriarchal blessing to Jacob.
Esau became very angry with his brother when he found out that Jacob had deceived his father and had already received the patriarchal blessing, threatening to kill Jacob. But the purposes of God had now been fulfilled according to the prophecy given to Rebecca before the two boys were born. The natural order does not apply when we come to the things of the spirit. It is not the first born that receives the birthright in the spiritual realm but the second born. The apostle Paul makes it clear,
“And so it is written, the first man Adam was made a living soul; but the last Adam was made a life-giving spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man [Adam] is of the earth, earthy: the second man [Jesus Christ] is the Lord from heaven.” (1 Corinthians 15:45-46)
This is not the end of the story with Jacob but so far we see how the purposes of God worked out in his life so that he received the birthright and the patriarchal blessing. Jacob’s marriage was next on God’s agenda, bringing Jacob into the household of his uncle Laban. God had purposed that Jacob’s children would become a great nation; marrying the right wife was crucial for Jacob. After working seven years as payment for Rachel to be his wife, Jacob wakes up the morning after the wedding to discover that his uncle had deceived him and had given him the older daughter Leah instead.
He realized that he had done his share of deception with his own family, so he simply makes a deal to work for another seven years for Rachael, because Jacob loved Rachael much more that Leah. However, God opened Leah’s womb and she brought forth four boys. Being barren, Rachel became very jealous and cries out to Jacob, “Give me children or I die.” Jacob knew that he was obsessed with Rachael and that was the reason why the Lord withheld children from her.
In due time, Rachael conceived and brought forth two sons, Joseph and Benjamin. When Joseph was born, Rachel cried out, "God has taken away my reproach." After Joseph was born Jacob said to Laban, "Send me away, that I may go to my own place and to my country.” But Laban replied "Please stay, if I have found favor in your eyes, for I have learned by experience that the LORD has blessed me for your sake." And he said, “Appoint me your wages and I will give it.” So Jacob saw his chance to make up for the fact that Laban had already changed his wages ten times. Jacob made a deal with Laban, "Let me pass through all your flock today, removing from there all the speckled and spotted sheep, and all the brown ones among the lambs, and the spotted and speckled among the goats; and these shall be my wages.”
Laban agreed to Jacob’s proposal because he considered speckled and spotted sheep, brown lambs and speckled goats to be worthless. But these seemingly worthless animals became the beginning of Jacob’s wealth. They multiplied and grew into a great and valuable flock after Jacob had received divine assistance in a dream.
“And it happened, at the time when the flocks conceived, that I lifted my eyes and saw in a dream, and behold, the rams which leaped upon the flocks were streaked, speckled, and gray-spotted.” (Genesis 31:10)
God blessed Jacob’s flock and it became bigger and healthier than all of Laban’s flocks. This angered Laban and his sons who accused Jacob of building his flocks and wealth at the expense of their father Laban.
Jacob now understands that God has become involved in his life and it is not his cunning or personal ability that is producing the results he now sees in his experiences. May Christians today see the hand of the Lord evidenced in their every day circumstances. Jacob reveals to us all that mankind comes into this world with a plan specific for each individual’s life. Once we acknowledge that God is our Father, He begins to reveal His plan for our life, supernaturally blessing us through His divine favor and involvement. Unfortunately, too many people never see the hand of the Lord involved in any aspect of their life. This is tragic because it robs so many of us the joy of knowing the love of our heavenly Father.
DIVINE INTERVENTION
Jacob is now on his way home, but Laban is running hard to catch up with him; the two meet at the Mountain of Gilead. But that night God spoke to Laban in a dream telling him not to speak either good or bad to Jacob. Laban accuses Jacob saying,
"What have you done, that you have stolen away unknown to me, and carried away my daughters like captives taken with the sword? Why did you flee away secretly, and steal away from me, and not tell me; for I might have sent you away with joy and songs, with timbrel and harp? And you did not allow me to kiss my sons and my daughters. Now you have done foolishly in so doing.” Jacob answered Laban, “Because I was afraid, for I said, ‘perhaps you would take your daughters from me by force.’” (Genesis 31:26- 27)
God restrained Laban in addressing Jacob because of the dream God had given Laban. It was very evident that God was involved in every part of Jacob’s life now and he had learned to trust Him. Jacob replied,
"Unless the God of my father, the God of Abraham and the Fear of Isaac, had been with me, surely now you would have sent me away empty-handed. God has seen my affliction and the labor of my hands, and rebuked you last night." (Genesis 31:42)
RECONCILIATION
Jacob needed to return home in order to fulfill he next step in his destiny: reconciliation with his past, and particularly with his brother Esau. The apostle Paul instructs us in this matter saying,
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:18)
This means that our whole life must be reconciled to God: both the days we lived before encountering Christ as well as those after we experienced the knowledge of Christ. We must also reach out and help others to walk in the freedom of the same reconciliation. Paul appropriately adds,
“Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God”.
This ministry of reconciliation is very important. The ambassadors refer to the older people who presided over the assemblies in different areas, but also to the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God. Reconciliation to God is not optional; it is an essential part of the bringing into union of what we once were, with what we are now.
This oneness cannot be attained as long as we think that the unrighteousness of our past life remains a blot on our record that has never been reconciled to God. But Paul leaves us in no doubt;
“You, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight.” (Colossians 1:21)
In His body of flesh on the Cross, Jesus Christ reconciled us by exchanging the glorious body in which He suffered, bled and died for our body so that on the third day we might walk out of the tomb in a body that was perfect and incorruptible. Christ declares triumphantly in Revelation 1:18,
“I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades (the Grave) and of Death.
A NEW DAY
Jacob is on his way home, and in his mind he is contemplating the meeting that he must have with his brother Esau. He remembers Esau’s intent to kill him after he had cheated Esau out of the father’s patriarchal blessing. Is this still Esau’s intent? Since that time, Jacob had seen the mighty hand of the Lord working on his behalf, especially in making sure that Laban was not going to send him away empty handed after his many years of faithful work. God intervened in Jacob’s arrangements with Laban over his wages and made Jacob’s flock bigger and more valuable than Laban’s flock. God had blessed and prospered Jacob; no one was more aware of this than Jacob Himself.
In their first encounter, God revealed to Jacob truth and knowledge about Himself that Jacob was yet to discover and comprehend. He is on his way home now and his mind is preoccupied with his upcoming encounter with Esau. Jacob had already seen the mighty hand of God working on his behalf in making him rich with much cattle.
However, his conflict concerning his brother is troubling his mind, and his confidence in the Lord is not yet sufficiently established. Jacob had yet to understand the divine benefits attached to receiving the birthright and the patriarchal blessing from his father. Jacob is at a point in his life experience where so many Christians find themselves today, where they can talk the talk, but can not yet walk the walk.
The dreaded meeting with his brother preoccupies Jacob’s mind and robs him of his peace. Jacob takes matters into his own hands, planning to send gifts to his brother who is on the way to meet him. Jacob sends his servants to Esau with many gifts of cattle as a gesture of good will. Jacob’s servants return with a word from Esau that he does not need Jacob’s cattle and that he on his way with 400 of his men to meet Jacob.
This news terrorized Jacob, who feared that Esau would kill him along with his wives and children. Jacob decided to send his wives and children over the brook Jabbok, which means, “to empty.” In reality, God was in the midst of all this: God wanted Jacob to encounter God alone so that He could do a work in Jacob’s heart in preparation for his encounter with his brother.
There would not be much sleep this night as Jacob finds himself in a struggle with an unknown stranger who seemed determined to wrestle with Jacob and win. Jacob mistakenly thought that this stranger represented his brother, and so for Jacob it was a fight for survival. He seemed convinced that if he lost the battle that he would die. Little did Jacob know that he was struggling with God, who was trying to rid Jacob of poor self esteem and a false sense of identity in order to establish a totally new identity, in keeping with God’s purposes for his future life.
For so many Christians today, this battle is still being played out as our Father attempts to equip each one of us with the identity that would fulfill the divine will in our life. So many Christians are working for ‘God Incorporated’ with the idea that we as mortal human beings can do whatever God needs us to do. Paul makes it very clear in 1 Corinthians 3:9 that, “We are laborers together with God” ... and not for God. It is Christ in you that is the hope of God being glorified.
As the new day dawned for Jacob, the stranger finished the struggle by touching the hollow of his thigh thereby ending the contest. The stranger asked Jacob to let him go. But Jacob said, “No I will not let you go until you bless me.” Jacob knew by now that this was not Esau his brother; rather, this stranger must be connected with God. The stranger asks Jacob a question, “What is your name?” And in the Hebrew it says he answered with a whisper, “Jacob. [Yes I am the cheat and the liar and the deceiver.]”
Jacob must have expected to hear the judgment of God upon him, but instead the stranger said to him,
“Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince you have power with God and with men, and you have prevailed.” (Genesis 32:28)
Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” Beloved, as you read these exciting words, is there not a cry coming from deep within your being asking Father to let this day be your PENIEL, to experience the transformation that Jacob experienced that night?
This was the end of Jacob’s night time experience, as he stepped out that day into the dawning of a most wonderful day, in which God was now a reality, and not some spiritual icon up in an ethereal heaven. From that time, Israel experienced the merging of those two worlds - the spiritual and the material - where we now can see God’s involvement in our world as it has always been in the world of spirit.
Now Jacob is confronted with his brother’s arrival and is still not sure of the outcome. But his reconciliation to his brother is a very important issue that must be settled before any further progress can take place in the fulfillment of God’s will in Jacob’s life. Everything must be reconciled in God and Jacob is about to see the first miracle in his new sphere of activity.
Jacob lifted up his eyes and saw Esau approaching with 400 men. He had already divided the children among Leah, among Rachel, and their two handmaids. And he put the handmaids and their children first, followed by Leah and her children, and finally Rachel and Joseph last. And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near his brother. That was all he needed to do because at that point,
Esau ran forward to meet him and embraced him, and fell on his neck and kissed him, and they wept. (Genesis 33:1-4)
All of Jacob’s concerns about Esau were over, and it was like nothing had ever happened. But the highlight of this whole reconciliation was recorded in Genesis 33:10 when the new Jacob - now called Israel - said to his brother Esau,
“Please receive my present from my hand, because of the fact that I have seen thy face as though I was looking at the face of God, and you were pleased with me.”
In this, Israel was not only reconciled to his brother, but also to God Himself. This brought Israel great peace, so that on his way home he bought a parcel of land in Shechem, erected an altar in it and called it EL-ELOHE-ISRAEL, meaning, “The mighty God of Israel.“ (Genesis 33:20)
Just ponder the wisdom of God to use the face of Esau through which to reflect his own image. The relevance of this certainly registered with Israel (Jacob). In that union, there was nothing that ever made Jacob afraid of God again or made him consider that God’s love for him was not total and absolute. That smiling image of God in the face of Esau wiped away any thought that God was in any way holding anything from the past against him.
Beloved, your name may not be Jacob, but you have a past that perhaps has anchored you so that you have never been able to walk in perfect love with your Heavenly Father because many issues remain unresolved in your life. If this is so, then spend a moment and consider Jesus Christ who suffered and died on the Cross 2000 years ago suffering the worst death a person could die on your behalf, and says to you today,
“WHATEVER YOU MAY HAVE DONE IN YOUR LIFE, I HAVE ALREADY
PAID YOUR DEBT IN MY BODY, TAKING IT INTO DEATH AS YOUR
BODY. NOW ON THE THIRD DAY, THAT ONE WHO WALKED OUT OF THE
TOMB IS Y-O-U, BUT YOUR BODY NOW IS DIFFERENT FOR IT IS A NEW
CREATION BODY, FASHIONED AFTER MY GLORIOUS BODY WHICH
CANNOT BE AFFECTED IN THIS WORLD, FOR IT BELONGS TO THAT
OTHER WORLD - THE WORLD OF SPIRIT, WHERE SICKNESS, PAIN,
SUFFERING AND DEATH DO NOT EVEN EXIST.” YOU HAVE NOW BEEN
RECONCILED TO GOD, WITHOUT SPOT OR WRINKLE, FOR AS I AM , SO
ARE YOU IN THIS WORLD.”
Des Walter
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